“Yeah, I would say the age process in Bremen is really crazy, because the first time I came here I went to the Jugendamt where they take the minors. Then, I was registered there, I went through this process that you have to go to the police and there they take fingerprints. And a few days later, you have to go to the Sozialamt where they interview you and ask you to explain your journey to Europe. They take pictures of you also, from your side-face. Then, they ask you questions: ‘How old are you?’ and you give your age and when you were born and how your journey was, as well, coming to Europe. Many times, these informations are rejected, because what they told me was that I was lying. By looking at me — as a Black person — I feel it was racism because I was totally rejected just by looking at my body, looking at me, that I don't look young. Then they said to me, ‘You are lying to us, that's not your age. In fact, we are giving you our own age.’ So they have to give you the age that they think you are. They told me, ‘This is how old you are,’ and there is no way you can defend it. I had a lawyer, and he went to appeal the case and at the end of the day, it did not work. This is how it was.”

“...When I came to Germany, I went to Bundes. When I got to Bundes, they took all my informations about me, myself — I gave all my information to them. So I was there, like, for three weeks. (...) And then they took me to the doctors and to the police to take my fingerprint and everything. I stayed there for three weeks and then I went to the interview with Social about the age estimation and so on.” Q: “What was the Social interview about? Was it about age or was it about your whole process of staying? Was it about asylum, or—?” A: “I don't even know what it was for them. They just call you and actually, I don't think they ask you about your age. They just said they are psychologists so they know exactly your age just by looking at you. But they don't ask anything about your age. They just ask you questions: ‘When were you born? How did you come to Europe? How did you came here in Germany?’ They ask you about all sorts of those things and also take pictures of you. They do all their stuff, but I don't remember if they ask questions like, ‘How old are you?’ But, of course, they asked, ‘When were you born?’ and you give them the answer. So that's what they do, I guess. If I can remember because it's been a long time. So I think I forgot how they did it exactly.” Q: “After this whole interview, what is the outcome of it?” A: “The outcome is, for example: If you give your age to them, and you said, for example, ‘I am 17 or 16 or 15,’ they will just make up their own mind and say ‘You are this or that age.’ So that's the outcome. They will just make their own decision about your age and say, ‘We don't believe the age you gave to us, so this is the age you have.’ So I don't know how they know what my age is, whether they are my father or my mother — I don't even know. They just come from nowhere and say: ‘This is your age. You have no proof.’”

“...There were two social workers: one sitting at the computer, sometimes asking questions and there was one sitting with him asking questions too.” Q: “Yeah, were they friendly or—” A: “They were not friendly.” Q: “Do you feel like these people are interrogating you, you know?” A: “They were not friendly, they don't want me here.”

“...This was not easy for me to handle at that very time because I have really felt alone. This was a bit crazy for me. The thing was like, my hands looked older than my age. So this is crazy, you know? (laughs gently) It is really really crazy, you know. Yeah, they said, sometimes, I don't talk like a kid or my voice is too heavy. This is very very crazy and funny too, you know. (...) The worst part of this was, they didn't accept my age but they have to give me an age. They gave to 10 people — more than 30 people of the boys — like we all have the same age. So this is very very crazy, you know. And like this age was like very very big. The young age at that time [was] 24. At that time, my big sister from same mother was like 23.” Q: “They made you older than your sister?” A: “Yeah, it was really really funny. I even have to tell my sister about it, just how funny and stupid — we have to cope with it. We have no choice, it is how the system goes here.” Q: “Yeah, you only have to cope, yeah. Okay, like you claimed to be 16 oder?” A: “No, I was 17.” Q: “17. And now they give you 24? So like, how did this felt for you? Somebody you don't know interviewing you and asking you stories and everything and at the end saying, ‘I don't trust you. You are this age and you have to accept it. You have to take it.’” A: “At that very point, because, before going for that interview, someone told me that if they didn't accept your age, they normally gave you another age. So at that time, I realized that they told me that you have hands like not that of an underage and your voice also is too deep. And then I asked the guy like, ‘What do you think now is my age?’ The guy told me that he didn't know.  Like, they will have to send me a letter. They gave me a letter from that interview and asked me to take it to my camp and show it to my social workers. There, it was written my age, the age that they fixed for me, like this fixed one, you know? In that letter, I realized that I have to go to another place to fight for the age, fight the decision they made. This was a long process.”

“My procedure was like this. After my interview they told me, you know, ‘We believe all what you said but in Bremen, in Germany kids are not intelligent like this, like you.’ This was what they told me. They said that out of 14 or 15 questions we asked you, you answered everything. In Germany, kids are not intelligent like this. So, this is how they rejected me.”

“I feel bad about it and I see that I'm just here but I don't have any voice and I don't have any right about my dignity. So, at that point, I determine that I am just a slave which has been taken from Africa to here and they now are going to decide anything about my situation. Because, as I told them my story and my situation, if they don't agree with it, they can say to me, ‘Okay, we will just forward it to another level.’ But they should not have the right to decide my age there — which they don't know. How can they just see a person and tell, ‘This is your age,’ which you never see — this is the first time they saw the person. It's all about racism, I can say.”

“...I think the public doesn't know what we are facing, it is only the victims who can voice out the problems. Because when this modern slavery started, when you start going to these interviews at Social — that is the first place this modern slavery started towards all these medical tests. You feel so embarrassed, you feel so helpless, you feel so depressed, you feel like a slave because your age is gonna be determined by someone else. So all these things, it's only the victims who can voice it out. The victims are the only ones who know what they are going through with all these kinds of situations, it comes in all negative forms towards them. So I think we, the victims, have to make the public know that this is happening to us and we don't know when it's gonna be stopped. And it has been going on every day, whether you know it or not. This is what you face here, when you newly come to Bremen.”

“I didn't believe in this bone testing because it is a gamble. Because I went with 7 people, and I was the only one that they did not accept my age. The other six, they accepted, were 16 or 17. I am the only one left out. I had no choice — I had to go for it.”

“Trotzdem haben die mir nicht geglaubt. Die haben gesagt: ‘Nein, du bist nicht 16’. Eine Woche war ich da, da haben die gesagt: ‘Wir wollen dich testen, ob du 16 bist oder nicht’. Da habe ich gesagt: ‘Egal. Ok, können wir machen’. Dann haben sie einen Tag geplant. Dann war da noch ein Kollege von mir, und dann haben die uns beide mitgenommen. NachEssen, in ein großes Krankenhaus. Wir sind dahin gegangen, die haben unser Blut getestet und so weiter. Dann bin ich da reingegangen…” Q: “In Essen?” A: “Ja, die haben gesagt: ‘Zieh dich aus.’ ‘Also, wieso soll ich mich ausziehen?’ ‘Eeh ja, wir wollen dich testen.’ Ich habe mich ausgezogen: erstmal Pullover, Hemd, alles. Er sagt: ‘Nein, musst du alles ausziehen.’ Das ist nicht normal. Er sagt: ‘Ja, wir wollen dich sehen.’ ‘Ja, was willst du sehen?’ Die haben gesagt: ‘Ja, nimm deine Hose auch runter.’ Ich habe gesagt: ‘Ok.’ Hose auch runter. Er sagt: ‘Nein, Unterhose auch runter.’ ‘Eeh, ich mache das nie, wer bist du?’ Die haben gesagt: ‘Nein, das ist unsere Pflicht, wenn du das nicht lässt, dann bist über 18.’ Und dann sie schreiben das so. Ok, guck. Ja, ok, dann hab' ich die Hose wieder hochgezogen und das war's. […] Paar Tage danach haben die einen Brief geschickt, da stand so: er ist nicht 16, sondern 17 und paar Monate. Ich habe zum Betreuer gesagt: Seid ihr behindert? Was ist der Unterschied? Ich bin jetzt sieben Monate hier. Ein Jahr Unterschied hoch oder runter - wieso habt ihr mir so viel Stress gemacht, mich dahin und wieder hergebracht. Hää?” Q: “Ok krass, und haben die in Essen auch so auch ein Röntenbild gemacht?” A: “Die haben ein Röntenbild gemacht und die haben mich in eine Maschine reingelassen. Was war das? Das war eine Maschine, ich bin da hinein.” Q: “War das so ein rundes Ding?” A: “Ja genau, genau. Ein paar Minuten, dann wieder raus.”

“The whole process of bone testing — I don't believe in it — is totally not okay for me, because that bone test cannot determine how old you are, it can just suggest and estimate your age. It can say, for example, ‘You might be between this age and this age,’ but at the end of the day, they will still choose how old they think you are. It is still the same system. This bone test is not working at all. For example, I have seen two brothers. The older brother was taken and said to be the younger one. (...) So you see how confusing it is? I know these people and the older brother was accepted because they think he looks younger than the young brother. It is all nonsense. It's not working. They just use it on black people to satisfy their investigations and to prove to themselves that they are doing good work. For me, it is totally not acceptable.”

“...Eigentlich sollte man sowas wie Altersschätzungen nicht machen. Wenn eine Person dir sagt, dass sie 16 ist, dann ist sie 16. Deine Maschine kann das nie wissen, ob du 16 bist oder 18 bist oder 19. Die können nicht mein Alter schätzen. Ja, ich habe die angelogen, um ehrlich zu sagen. Ich war damals zwanzig, die haben mich 17 geschätzt. Dann was macht diese Maschine? Diese Maschine ist kaputt. Ich bin jetzt 27, die Maschine ist kaputt. Niemand kann schätzen. Außer Gott. Muss man bisschen logisch denken, wie geht das? Ich bin 20, bin ich dahin und Maschine sagt, dass ich 17 bin.” Q: “Das heißt ihr habt euch totgelacht, als ihr das gehört habt?” A: “Ja, ehrlich. Was ist das? Wie macht man das einfach?” Q: “Ja, ein Freund von mir hatte beim Jugendamt die Altersschätzung. Und der hat auch gesagt, dass er 16 ist. Er ist aber sehr klein und zierlich. Die vom Jugendamt haben gesagt: ‘Neee, du bist nicht 16, du bist 14’. Und er hat sich totgelacht innerlich. Also der hat irgendwann gesagt: ‘Ok, was sind das für Leute? Was ist los hier? Warum glauben die mir nicht? Und warum geben sie mir irgendein Alter?’”

Q: “Kennst du das noch von anderen Freunden, bei denen das auch so war, denen auch ein jüngeres oder älteres Alter gesagt wurde?” A: “Ja, glaube ich schon, weil die Maschine ist kaputt. Wie soll die Maschine das wissen? Die machen Röntgen, OK, von Knochen. OK, wie soll man das verstehen? Ich habe zum Arzt auch gesagt: ‘Komm mal, mach deinen Mund auf, ich schätze, wie alt du bist!’. Er sagte: ‘Was meinst du damit?’. Ich nochmal: ‘Mach deinen Mund auf, ich weiß wie alt du bist’. Ja, der Arzt hat es dann später verstanden. Bei uns in Afghanistan, wenn eine Kuh alt wird, dann sagen wir zu ihr: ‘Mach den Mund auf!’. Wir sagen, wir sehen wie alt sie ist. Also verstehst du? Sieh, du kannst mich nicht schätzen.” Q: “Ich kenne das auch aus Deutschland, da gibt es das eigentlich auch bei Pferden. Bei den Pferden guckt man auch.” A: “Ja, Mund auf! Lass mich dich sehen, und dann gucke ich, ob das passt. Ja, so ist das. So ist das hier in Deutschland.”

“...Yeah, still, I have my friends — like sometimes when we sit like in 4 or 5 in number, I used to ask them the same questions like the Social asked. And we all laugh, how funny, how stupid these questions were. ‘How old are you? What age did they give you?’ I don't know — blah, blah, blah. Mostly we were all assigned the same age, the same birthday: twelfth, thirty first, ninety five.” Q: “Yeah 1995. Yeah, I can remember this date—” A: “They just talk-talk — almost, maybe 20, 30 people.”